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	<title>Comments on: Why We Need More Churches</title>
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	<description>Let your thoughts meander towards a sea of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Yaacov</title>
		<link>http://www.meander.ca/2009/05/13/why-we-need-more-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaacov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 03:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent questions, Ryan. I have some guesses, but I don&#039;t feel very firm in them. Your evaluation would be appreciated. 

I think that churches play a role unlike the vast majority of secular organizations because they cross many social lines (age, status, gender, though not so much race), they have extremely inclusive membership criteria, they are based on an ethic of mutual support and they expect and receive very long term commitments from active members. These characteristics are what make churches community hubs.

Most NGOs don&#039;t meet any of these criteria. AA is closer, since it crosses social lines and has an ethic of mutual support, but it&#039;s not inclusive in its membership, and term of commitment may vary. Although it&#039;s a great organization, it&#039;s not a focal point for mutual assistance in tough times, nor is it a focus for social justice activism.
Unions are pretty close to churches on these criteria. They don&#039;t cross status lines and, depending on the union, may have gender line issues as well, but otherwise share these advantages. However, it&#039;s difficult to think of any other secular organization that shares all or even most of these characteristics. 

The word &quot;community&quot; is now being associated with a wide variety of groups, and I think it&#039;s being misused. To me, a community is something that you&#039;re part of regardless of who your friends are, what your interests are, whether you contribute or not. A community has a broad spectrum of people, of all ages, social roles, etc. A village is a community, a church is a community, but open source activists, local artists, etc. are not a community. That&#039;s not to put down either of those groups, I think they are awesome groups deserving of support, but they don&#039;t form the same bonds of mutual support that a church community does.

The big question for me in all of this, and maybe you too, is can you get an organization with the characteristics I listed without requiring some form of faith from members. Hopefully a sociologist can help us out with that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent questions, Ryan. I have some guesses, but I don&#8217;t feel very firm in them. Your evaluation would be appreciated. </p>
<p>I think that churches play a role unlike the vast majority of secular organizations because they cross many social lines (age, status, gender, though not so much race), they have extremely inclusive membership criteria, they are based on an ethic of mutual support and they expect and receive very long term commitments from active members. These characteristics are what make churches community hubs.</p>
<p>Most NGOs don&#8217;t meet any of these criteria. AA is closer, since it crosses social lines and has an ethic of mutual support, but it&#8217;s not inclusive in its membership, and term of commitment may vary. Although it&#8217;s a great organization, it&#8217;s not a focal point for mutual assistance in tough times, nor is it a focus for social justice activism.<br />
Unions are pretty close to churches on these criteria. They don&#8217;t cross status lines and, depending on the union, may have gender line issues as well, but otherwise share these advantages. However, it&#8217;s difficult to think of any other secular organization that shares all or even most of these characteristics. </p>
<p>The word &#8220;community&#8221; is now being associated with a wide variety of groups, and I think it&#8217;s being misused. To me, a community is something that you&#8217;re part of regardless of who your friends are, what your interests are, whether you contribute or not. A community has a broad spectrum of people, of all ages, social roles, etc. A village is a community, a church is a community, but open source activists, local artists, etc. are not a community. That&#8217;s not to put down either of those groups, I think they are awesome groups deserving of support, but they don&#8217;t form the same bonds of mutual support that a church community does.</p>
<p>The big question for me in all of this, and maybe you too, is can you get an organization with the characteristics I listed without requiring some form of faith from members. Hopefully a sociologist can help us out with that one.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Case</title>
		<link>http://www.meander.ca/2009/05/13/why-we-need-more-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Case</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 21:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey Yaacov,

I think you make a great point about the role that churches can play within a community.  However, I&#039;d like to play devil&#039;s advocate to your comment :) 

Is there a way to engage the secular citizen to partake in this same charitable behaviour, without the need for a church? Communities can be formed around any number of interests, which need not be religious. I wonder why it is that secular communities and organisations seem to fail to provide these same necessary, charitable roles? And more importantly I guess, is there any way to change that?

Thanks for all the great posts!
Ryan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Yaacov,</p>
<p>I think you make a great point about the role that churches can play within a community.  However, I&#8217;d like to play devil&#8217;s advocate to your comment <img src='http://www.meander.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Is there a way to engage the secular citizen to partake in this same charitable behaviour, without the need for a church? Communities can be formed around any number of interests, which need not be religious. I wonder why it is that secular communities and organisations seem to fail to provide these same necessary, charitable roles? And more importantly I guess, is there any way to change that?</p>
<p>Thanks for all the great posts!<br />
Ryan</p>
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